Webinar: ‘How I Got Here’ – An Interview with Mia Mends of Sodexo

Keith:

Let’s get started. I am so excited. Today is, is extra special. I’m first of all, I’m Keith Wolf. I’m managing director of Murray resources. We are a national recruiting firm here in Houston, and I’m also the CEO of resume spice. We’re a career coaching and resume writing service, and together we’re bringing you this webinar and I am particularly excited because it’s special. Anytime you have a chance to speak with someone you’ve been friends with for a long time, I’ve known today’s guests for over 30 years, we grew up in the same neighborhood, went to high school together, went to overlap in business school.

Keith:

So I really have a unique perspective of seeing her career play out. But you know how it is with most friends. You don’t sit near them and ask them, Hey, how’d you, how’d you get there? How do you make that decision? Why did you make that decision? You just sorta see it unfold. And I’m as interested as all you are as seeing me and men’s career from her standpoint and how it played out and how she made the decisions that she did to take her career the way she did wherever you are in your career, whether you’re just starting off or it’s late in your career. I think we can all gain something from really hearing successful people and their stories. And so I’m looking forward to bringing you that today. And that’s why we titled this, how I got here. So let me first and Mia, you know, we’re going to New York and speak eventually I promise.

Keith:

But she made a point to tell me, do not read my entire bio. That’s embarrassing. And I said, too bad. This is my webinar. We’re going to do things my way. So here it goes, I did cut it down. So this is the condensed version. Mia mens is the global chief diversity equity and inclusion officer for Sedexo. And she’s also the CEO of impact ventures. For those of you who are not familiar with Sedaxo, they employ almost a million people, 420,000 people worldwide in 64 countries serving a hundred million consumers every day. They have onsite services, benefits, reward services, and personal home services. She also oversees corporate social responsibility and stop hunger for Sedaxo north America. And she leads to DEXA magic, a joint venture between Sedexo and magic Johnson enterprises cannot wait to hear all about that. Mia is a member of the Sedexo global human resources leadership team and the north American regional leadership committee in her spare time.

Keith:

She founded her own nonprofit, seven sisters, his sister, she serves on the boards of girls, Inc. The emerge fellows program catalyst and the greater Houston partnership. She also sits on the business leadership council at Wellesley college and Harvard business school. African-American alumni board. She’s a corporate director for H and R block and Limeade, and she’s recognized in black enterprises, 2019, most powerful woman in corporate America feature. She holds a BA in economics from Wellesley college and an MBA from Harvard business school. Mia. I’m so glad you here. Thank you for joining, excited to get into this. Thank you, Keith.

Mia:

I am so embarrassed about my long resume, but let me, let me really say first, when you say 30 years, it makes me feel so old, but it is beautiful to have had such enduring relationships. And even though we haven’t always seen each other, we have connected at those moments in life and I am also very proud of you and all you’ve accomplished in your beautiful family. It’.

Mia:

S it’s an honor to be here with you.

Keith:

Thank you. Thank you. Well I’m excited to get started. So let’s let’s first start. Let’s let’s start where you are now, and then we’re going to go backwards. So let’s talk about, I gave your bio, but let’s actually talk about your role and what your responsibility is in your current role. Yeah,

Mia:

No ha happy to do that. So I’ve been at Sedexo for nine years and this job that I started two months ago represents my fifth job in nine years. So a lot of movement and I think that’s one of the gifts of working for a big multinational is that there are lots of places to go. And so I know we’ll talk about a little bit about career planning, but I would not have guessed that this is the job I would have been doing at this particular moment in my career. But I will say when I was asked to take the role, I paused for a couple of reasons. One is that I have enjoyed a wonderful career in the business, and I’ve always thought that at my heart, I’m a business operator and I loved the sort of the P and L function, you know, building businesses, you know, growing revenue, client interaction, you know, managing, you know, the operation.

Mia:

I really love that. And I was worried about losing that in this job. This job though, I think is the unbelievable, the convergence of my desire to to be aligned in business, to have a business role, but also use business as a platform to improve society. And and I wasn’t quite thinking about it that way when I was first asked to take the job. And so I came up with all the reasons why I wasn’t the right person, one of which is I’m not a traditional practitioner in the space. I’m not, I don’t come from the HR background, don’t have an HR background. And I’m certainly other than my passion for this work, I’m not a practitioner or an expert, but like everything else in my career, I’ve just learned to figure it out. So I am in the happily in the learning and discovery phase. But I feel really good after, you know, 20, 25 years of working that I’ll figure it out and that I’ll leverage the people around me to build what I hope is an enduring strategy in this work. I love

Keith:

That. Well, let’s let’s and I want to talk more about your current role, but I want to go all the way back all the way back. Okay. So I know a lot of your story, but let’s talk for the folks who don’t, you know, w w who was me as a little girl, and I knew you you know, for a lot of the time, but tell us about, you know, your ambitions and kind of, you know, what, where you, you know, where you took your career early on and kind of how you got your start.

Mia:

Yes. So so Keith and I have in common that we’re both African Keith is from South Africa. I am from Ghana and I immigrated to this country with my family when I was eight years old in the midst of a coup in our home countries. So there was a military takeover. And so my parents, we fled my parents left with their two, three young daughters. I’m the oldest of three girls. And we moved first to London. We have family there and we thought things would get better and things actually continue to decline. And so my parents decided they were both accomplished professionals. So we left Ghana. They decided to take their chance, move to the U S Houston specifically and started over. And I think that watching their hardship, but also resilience and triumph absolutely informed my life and my life choices. I th I think my parents just have been so instrumental in helping us think about our, our lives through our lens of gratitude and humility the importance of work ethic the importance of taking risks, which clearly they did at such a pivotal point in their careers and their lives.

Mia:

The importance of using my voice and everything that I’ve been given to make the world a slightly better. I mean, those were all early life. And so I think my parents taught us all to be again, black girls, to be brave, to be courageous, to take risk to know who we were and to feel proud of who we were. So they taught us to be excellent to be ambitious, but it was always coupled with humility and gratitude. And that has shaped every aspect of my life including where I went to school, who I’ve chosen to work for and the, the roles that I’ve taken at companies, all of that has shaped those decisions.

Keith:

Yeah. So let’s, let’s even start. So, so knowing you in high school, you know, there’s some people who, you know, you hear their stories and, you know, they got bad grades in high school. They didn’t really bounce a much, they kind of stumbled into something. And lo and behold, one day, you know, their CEO that wasn’t, you, you know, as long as I’ve known you, you’ve been ambitious. You’ve always done well at everything you’ve done. So, so how much of that was them showing you versus, Hey, this is the way we do things and, and telling you, you know, you need to do XYZ or encouraging you to do through their words or watching them.

Mia:

It was both. I mean, so Keith, I don’t know if you’ll remember, I didn’t get to go a lot to a lot of parties when I was in high school. You know, I was usually home usually studying you know, or doing some school activity. And so the notion of like every grade mattered, every class mattered. Every commitment mattered that started really early. And my parents were unforgiving about high achievement and performance bridges, really, as immigrants, I think they always perceive that education was the path to a greater life. And so we just were not allowed to take anything for granted, but I also think I was inspired by just seeing how hard they worked. And I only, I, it, the beautiful thing about growing up in my household was, I didn’t know that we didn’t have a lot because my parents were loving and they made the little things matter.

Mia:

And, and I, I suppose you probably don’t know what you don’t have. But I remember like the best thing that happened was when we took a road trip, we drove to new Orleans when I was in high school. And we stayed like at the, you know, the holiday Inn. And I just like, that was now I contrast that with my kids experienced, you know, they get to go to Hawaii this summer. I mean, that’s what they know. I never felt like I was, I was I never longed for anything because I think I had the things that really mattered, which were just parents that focused us and, and ensured and instilled in us, you know, the highest levels of integrity. So it was both certainly by, by word and, and, and, but mainly by action, my parents just inspired me and even more so now that I’m older and raising my own kids. Yeah.

Keith:

And, and you realize how right they were. Yeah. They, okay, so you graduated high school, you went to Wellesley, take us, take us a little bit through that. And then your first job, and you went into the career that you did.

Mia:

Oh, the Wellesley story, because I think Wellesley made everything else in my life possible. I I was applying to college. I mean, so our class of Beller high school class of 93. So we were, I know we’re old, keep, we were applying. I was applying to I was applying to college when bill Clinton was running for office. And so Hillary was in the news a lot. And whatever your politics and whatever you think about the Clintons, I was awestruck by Hillary. Cause I just thought like every time I see her speak, I thought she’s such a smart woman. Thank you. I don’t look old, I’m thinking, but and

Keith:

I noticed you didn’t say the same thing about me. Okay. Okay. Go ahead.

Mia:

So Hillary went to Wellesley and I just remember thinking, gosh, she’s a smart, independent woman. And so I just started exploring this notion of all women’s institutions and Wellesley’s is an all women’s school. But when we were applying to colleges I really thought I might stay in Texas. I also wanted to stay close to my parents. Also being the oldest of three, I just felt an obligation to stay close to home. So I applied to lots of schools and I got a full scholarship to Southern Methodist Methodist university, which is an amazing college in Dallas. And I thought that’s where I was going to go. But when I got into Wellesley, my parents said, Wellesley will change your life. It will change your perspective. It will expand your horizon. So we don’t know how we’re going to pay for it, but we’re going to borrow and we’re going to find a way you’re going to Wellesley.

Mia:

And, and indeed, that was just one of the best gifts my parents gave me because Wellesley made everything accessible. You know, you’re in that environment and it barely impressionable moment in your life where you’re told you can be in do anything like as the woman, you should see no barriers. And it just reinforced it reinforced for me the importance of young girls in particular, getting important messages at the right moment in life because it shapes your trajectory and it shapes your view of what you think is possible for your life. I got that at Wellesley Wellesley made HBS Harvard business school accessible. I’ve never in a million years would have even imagined that somebody like me could go to Harvard, which I mean, I know keep you went there and you know, maybe it was always accessible for you, but I just, you know, I just think that as is when you’re an immigrant, when you’re a woman and when you’re a person of color society just tells you, there are things that you cannot do.

Mia:

And I I’m fortunate those moments in life to have this sort of sense of nourishment where people would say to me of course you can. It makes all the difference. So wildly led to HBS and HBS also led to everything else that happened. So I think Wellesley gave me the, that there were, there were lots of things that I could do and I was capable. I think HBS gave me the, like the tactical know-how. I think you leave HBS thinking. You can be the next CEO. I mean, no, you can’t, but it does. It gives you, it gives you managerial perspective. And and so, but let me also say this as I think about my life story and everything that’s been possible. And I hate to always come back to, you know, race and ethnicity. But I do think that having that Harvard MBA opened so many doors because it said to people that, okay, like it gave me a certain level of credibility. And, and I think that when you are a woman and a person of color, there’s so much you have to overcome. I think I was helped by my credentials. I think HBS gave me credibility and legitimacy that a lot of people would take risk on me.

Keith:

You had to get in there first and you did have a couple of jobs in between right. College and business school, which most people do, you know, they work between the two. So tell us what you did. And, and was that your plan or how’d you make those decisions to go into what you did after, after?

Mia:

Yeah, so after Wellesley, I went, I took a job with Citibank and I mean, I went to liberal arts school you know, the closest I was going to get to business with with economics. But, but it didn’t give me like a practical sense of business. So I wanted just to send for it, like w what does it mean? And I thought marketing was interesting. And so I went to Citibank because they were one of the few companies hiring undergrads to get into marketing. It was a rotation program. I hated that job so much because it was all about, so I was doing credit card marketing, and it was all quantitative, you know, you were measuring, like, if you move this letter from the back to the front, like, does it lift response rates? It was so quantitative and I am really a people person.

Mia:

I want to do work with people, enable people. And I was studying, studying spreadsheets all day. But I’m fortunate because I was mentored by a woman who, after a couple of years just thought, are we using media leveraging me as strengths in the best possible way? It’s, it’s great to have leaders that think about how to match jobs with your passion and interest. And she did that for me. So she moved me out of that job and put me in more of a client facing role. So it’s helping us also build out our merchant network. I love that part of the job. And I thrive there and I think it was doing that job really well and getting promoted several times in that job that also made me an interesting HBS candidate. But I, I suppose the message I want to convey there because after that, I took more jobs that I didn’t particularly like.

Mia:

And over 20 years, I have loved and been, felt empowered by many jobs, but I’ve also hated and felt diminished by some jobs, but you can’t get away from those, nor should you, because those things build both emotional resilience, but also technical competence. So it’s been a mixed bag. I probably have like more jobs than I’ve liked, but at this point in my career, and I know we’ll get there. So I feel so grateful to feel like I have choice and agency and choosing the things that I want to do, because I think they’re going to make me happy.

Keith:

Yeah. And I think it’s so important intentionally, honestly, I think there was a lot of folks who are miserable in their jobs and a lot of them, you know, earlier in their careers maybe, or maybe even later in their careers and knowing it’s not just them. I mean, they’re not crazy that a lot of people feel that way and, and, you know, good things can come after that, you know? And so you went to business school, you graduated, you could have done a lot of different things. Tell us about what you did.

Mia:

Yeah. Oh, that’s such a good story. I don’t think actually, you know, this story. So I fell in love with this amazing man in, at Wellesley and we embarked on a multi-year long distance relationship. So he he eventually moved to Chicago, which is where I was between Wellesley and business school. And and then like I applied to Kellogg, which is in Chicago. And then I applied to HBS, which is in Boston. And somehow we made the decision that you gotta go, you gotta go to HBS because it will change your life. Even though Kellogg was a great school. So we got engaged just before I went to business school and, and we sort of decided, okay, after business school, we’re going to be in the same place because we’re getting married and we talked about DC. And so I did, oh, keep, you’ll love this story.

Mia:

So I did this internship. You might remember in our first year of business school, even though I’m one year ahead of you, I’m pretty sure you experienced the same case we did in our operations class, a case on the Ritz Carlton and the GM, the gentleman manager of the Ritz Carlton came to class that day. He was running a newly opened hotel in DC. And after reading that case and sitting through that class, I literally on a whim, went up to him and, and said, can I come work for you this summer? I know nothing about the hotel business, but I know I’m so interested in these sort of how you enliven these incredible experiences for people, you know, through an operational setting. And he’s like, I wonder what I do with you. I said, I don’t know, but I’ll do anything. So we worked out a deal where I got to come live in the hotel for the summer, and I did every single job.

Mia:

Sorry. I think my dog just walked in. I did every single job from, you know, you know, the front desk to working weddings, to making beds. I loved it. The Ritz Carlton had just been acquired by Marriott at the time. And so I was also helping them with like integrating into Marriott, which is more the business side, long story short. I I got herself in Marriott after business school, which was going to be in DC. I literally finished that summer knowing that I had a job. And and so my husband and I, my fiance and I decided we were going to DC. And then in literally February or March, he decides he wants to go back to school. And the school, his degree was going to be, it’s an industrial design, the best schools in Chicago. And I literally gave back the ring.

Mia:

I was like, you know what we made this joint decision and you have flipped the script. I’ll be going to DC to work for Marriott. And you can go ahead and get your degree. I mean, this is so real because I think lots of couples grappled with these sort of life career decisions. I mean, obviously love prevailed. And I was like, you know what, I’m building my life with this person. So I got to figure it out. So it was April that I started looking for a new job and I ended up working for United airlines in Chicago. I mean, it just sort of happened. I mean, I didn’t plan for it. I wasn’t particularly interested in the company, but I thought, you know what, maybe it keeps me close you hospitality. And then when yard finishes has gree planning, planning, we’ll go to D C and I’ll get back to the Marriott and Ritz Carlton.

Mia:

Anyway, so I went to Chicago, I worked for United didn’t like that job so much. But again, it was sort of, you know, some of the growing pains. And I think you also, when you finish, when you walk out of a school like HBS people either think you’re arrogant or they have super high expectations of what you’re capable of. And I feel like on the, on the ladder, I kind of, it was, I sort of struggled with this notion of high expectation. And there was a lot to overcome because I was also learning. So it just took me a while to get my sea legs. I ended up when I finally left United, I was, I was, I was, I was firing on all cylinders, but it took me like three years to be like, you know what, I’m, I can actually contribute because I finally understand the business and I’m growing into myself, but I live with such intimidation those first few years.

Keith:

And, you know, you never sought out another hospitality role or that was, that was sort of for

Mia:

No, because I had to, well, yeah, I mean, one, I had to be in Chicago and there weren’t a whole lot of options. And then I suppose my priority started to change because his yard was finishing his degree. We started thinking about starting a family. We wanted to be close to home. And so I activated my network and and then I’m having a series of conversations. And within a few weeks I had a great job in Houston that was so different than anything that I had done. It was more entrepreneurial. It was helping to build a business from scratch, but it was where I started to think about aligning this notion of leveraging business as a platform to improve the society. Because this company at the time was called precast. It’s not an Adventist. And the value proposition was providing financial services to the underserved and under-banked.

Mia:

So, I mean, there are like a hundred million people in this country, but do not have bank accounts for a whole host of reasons. I think that’s changing. I mean, banking is becoming more accessible when I took this job, you know, 15 years ago it was novel. The idea that people who are, who are under-banked could have financial products. And so that’s all we did was, you know, how do you pay your bills if you don’t have a bank account, how do you save money? So we were all these like alternative solutions. I love that job. You know, I’ve been building new products, you know, thinking very strategically, deploying new programs, thinking about the consumer value proposition. It was a, it was a B to C business. And I got my first PNL role at 31. And again, this was just, the CEO just said, I just want, I think you should take this job.

Mia:

I’d had my first child, by the way. And I remember saying to John, but I want to have more babies. And I don’t know anything about running a business. And he was like, well, of course you can have babies and still lead a business. And number two, like you need to learn this. I’ll never forget this lesson. Like this has stayed with me. He said, you need to learn. The only way you learn how to do jobs is you got to take them. So I know you don’t know how to do this job, but neither did I be fried to the 70 that I know how to be a CEO. We first, somebody made me a CEO that is so powerful because women in particular, one to tick all the boxes before they say yes to jobs, which John taught me is the way you learn the way you learn as you take a job.

Mia:

So I took the job, but I took the job because I also knew that John would mentor and coach me. And then he would, I was gonna say, I was about to say, he would not, he would not let me fail. Well, I called, of course I failed, but that he would be kind when I did and that we would learn from the experience. He would allow me to learn from that experience. So honestly, I got lucky, cause it’s not the case. This notion of somebody who enables you and empowers you to take risks, but somebody also who allowed me to fail gracefully, those were such important lessons early in my career. And I did that. I was not, I was at that company for seven years.

Keith:

So tell us about the different roles you had there and were you in, cause I know, you know, marketing is in the title. Did you think yourself functionally as a marketer or kind of, how do you think of yourself because you’ve been doing a lot of different things up to that point? Yeah.

Mia:

I mean, I suppose I came in to the job, having done marketing, like loyalty marketing, relationship marketing. But the, the job was really to be a general manager, which was, you know, thinking about how we sell products and services, which, you know, marketing is at the heart of that. But it was also about learning how to do things profitably. That’s the power of running a P and L is yeah, you got to sell, but you got to think about how to do it efficiently, how to, how to leverage and maximize resources to ultimately enhance profit. And those are like, I always say, I think functional roles are really important and they’re rich full of wonderful experiences, but the P and L role is where all the leverage it is because it’s where the money’s made, you know, it’s where the money’s made. So that was, that was powerful.

Mia:

And once I got that experience, I never wanted to go back into unfunctional functional role until the next job. But, but, but eat you’re right, Keith, I mean, even at, even at pre-cash now Noventis I started, you know, served doing product management marketing and then that moved into PNL. And then I did that P and L job when we restructured and then I became our head of product and marketing, like looking at the entire enterprise. So so no, I mean, it was rich. I learned a lot. The thing about careers is you don’t stay still. I mean, and that’s even become more acute in my Sedexo career. So I’ll pause. And you tell me if we should go to Sedexo

Keith:

Just before we do so. So you were there for maybe six and a half years or so, and I’m sure you had a lot of different opportunities coming at you from the outside, maybe from the inside too. How did you know that staying where you were, maybe you didn’t, I mean, it happened, how do you think about staying where you are, if that was the right decision it’s down that path and not take some of these different opportunities that might’ve come at you?

Mia:

I think I have a more nuanced view of that now than I did then, because perspective is everything, you know, hindsight is everything, but I think at the time it was simply do I feel like I’m contributing? Am I enjoying the work? Do I, am I learning from the people around me? And, and then when I didn’t feel those things anymore, I knew it was time to go. I do think it’s so important though, not to run from opportunities, but to go to even better ones that you should never leave a job, go to a new job under duress. I mean, and maybe that’s a luxury. And a privilege that I’ve had is, is again this notion of choice and, and doing the things that I, that I feel passionate about. And that was not true in early my career. I mean, I took that United job because I just, I wanted to be with my fiance.

Mia:

But certainly as you progress in your career, I think you want to, you want to go to great things versus running from things that don’t feel good. But, but really pre-cash, I felt a strong sense of contribution up until I felt like it was time to go. But, but the, but the dynamic changed, the industry was changing. John retired, there were just a confluence of factors that helped me sort of realize it was a bit, but even when I decided it was time to go, I just thought, but I’m gonna take my time. I’m not, I mean, I find that next job and that next, that next company that makes my heart sing.

Keith:

And that was one of my questions. So what were you looking for at that point? Was it a certain company for certain industry? Was it a certain function, something that you’re looking to get into? Was it a locational? How important was that?

Mia:

Yeah, so at this point I had two kids and you know what, I was maybe 35 and I decided that the next job would be less about the role and more about the company. And because I just decided, and I just knew because I felt it at, at, at, at pre-cash that if you are at a company whose values and mission and purpose is aligned with your own where you can be authentic, where you can bring the best parts of who you are to work. And also the, the, the, the less great parts of who you are to work that it’s sort of you’ll find your path. I knew that I did, I knew that instinctively. And so I was not looking for a function or a role. I was looking for a company and then I found it and I knew, like I became actually obsessed with Sodexo.

Keith:

Well, tell us about that. So tell us about your first role at DEXA. What were you doing?

Mia:

Okay, so first, let me tell you about Sedexo and how so. I found the job on the HBS site. And I just, as I was like, I kind of know I’ve heard this company cause they bought, they acquired Marriott’s business at the first while they were like Sedexo Marriott. I was like, wait, where are they in hospitality food? Anyway. So I started digging and I thought, wow, what an incredible global company. I love the way they talk about people. Diversity, equity, and inclusion. It was like just a place that seemed to have their priorities in order and understood that ultimately the work we do has to be about humanity. I just, I just saw that in their, in their words. And so literally I applied for the job and then I didn’t hear anything. So I kept just calling the headhunter. I like, so I kept calling, calling, calling, and I waited until he answered.

Mia:

And I said, this is me. And then I said, you might resume for this job, but you haven’t called me back. He was like, wait, wait, who are you? I said, I said, this is my job. And he said, but you don’t have really have the prerequisite skills. I said, I know, cause it was like an operations job in food services. I had none of that experience. And I said, but I, this is my company. You have to let me talk to them. Anyway. I convinced him. So Keith, sometimes even in your role, you got to take a chance on people who may not check all the boxes, but I think he also sends this alignment and, and here’s the thing I became literally obsessed about working for the company. I read everything I could get. Like I could, I memorize practically their annual report, which is, that’s a document.

Mia:

That’s a couple of hundred pages. And when I finally got into that interview, I was so worked up like just crazy manic about this job. But of course I didn’t get it. I mean, no, I didn’t get it. I didn’t get it. And I remember, but here’s, here’s, here’s what happened. And I remember walking out of that room knowing, oh, I didn’t get that job. I stopped in this interview. Like I was hyper. I was too like just all the things, like some of the best parts of my personality were just an overdrive. And I remember the HR leader calling me and she said, I wanted this job for you so much because I know how much you wanted it, but let me tell you why you didn’t get it. She was so she took a chance. She said, you, I feel like you lacked executive presence.

Mia:

You know, you’re clearly, you’re a smart woman, but I just, we didn’t see that in you. And she said, so let me tell you me at the next time you go into an interview like this one, I want you to get your hair done because my hair was in a ponytail, like who knew your hair done? And I want you to get a killer bag. Like, let me, it’s like these little things that I took for granted. Like, she’s like, you make a statement where you walk into a room and we just didn’t see somebody who was super professional or looked super mature. That feedback killed me because I’d never seen myself in that light because I’ve been, you know, I’ve been running a business, but anyway, but this was a, it was a different league, but she’s like, well, we’ve got your resume.

Mia:

And if there’s something that comes up, we’ll let you know. I was like, I mean, I was devastated for months. So this was in June and then August, I get a call and, or it was an email and it was, it simply said, dear me, immense. We invite you to come to Sao Paulo, Brazil to meet with this person and this person. And and that was all. And I was like I said to my husband, should I go? He’s like, yeah, go, you have nothing to lose. There was no job description. So they flew me to Brazil and I, I spent three days meeting people in the team leaders. I left that meeting, falling even more deeply in love with Sedexo, but having no sense of what the job was like, they didn’t tell me what I was going to read before. They just said, we want to get to know you.

Mia:

That was August, November, Thanksgiving, day of that year, I got a call and she said, the head of HR said, Mia, you know, it’s been great to know you. We want to offer a job. It’s to run sales in Latin America, across our eight countries in Sao Paulo, Brazil. I was like, but wait, I know marketing, I’ve never run sales before. I was like, are you sure you don’t want to put me in a marketing job? She said, no, we want to put you in the sales role. And you’ll need us to speak Spanish and Portuguese, like, you’ll have to learn the languages. And she said, let me test your Spanish. Cause I live in Texas. She’s like, say something. And I said, or like with us Grazia she’s like, perfect, perfect. You’ll learn. It was on that. My husband and I were like, we should do this. He quit his job. We sold our house and we moved our two small children to south Paolo Brazil. Yeah. Are we crazy or are we crazy?

Keith:

Yeah, this is, this is a lot of new information for me. This is amazing. So you went to Brazil, you didn’t speak Portuguese, you sounds like you barely spoke Spanish. Yeah.

Mia:

Yeah. That job changed me. So I went into the lat Latin America role. I was one of two women at the executive level. I was one of if you’ve had a full of blacks and I will say one of the reasons we actually wanted to go to Brazil was outside of Africa. Brazil has the highest population of Africans and we just thought how good for our kids to see themselves are presented in culture society. It was shocking because like the us there is this sort of bifurcation and, and we found, we were always the only black people everywhere we went because it’s also socioeconomic. And so we just, it was such a jarring experience. And unlike anything we, we had anticipated and, and I’ll just share an antidote, which is not really germane to the story, but I just, it just gives you a sense for what we had to, what we encountered my daughter.

Mia:

It, this broke my heart, you know, a year in, I remember coming home from school and saying she wanted to be blonde and white because that’s what she saw around her. Even though we were living in this really diverse country, you didn’t see black people represented, you know, in her private school, international school or the fancy places that we would go. And we were welcomed as ex-pats. And I remember people would always embrace us because we were Americans. Blacks are second class citizens in, in Brazil anyway. So but here’s the piece that changed me having to be in an environment where every day I had to prove that I was smart and I, because I didn’t speak the language. And I mean, it took me 18 months to learn to speak Spanish and Portuguese. And I remember saying to them, and some people spoke English just fine, but I’d say don’t speak English, speak the language.

Mia:

And so I would sit through meetings every day, feeling exhausted, but also so ineffective because I didn’t know what they were talking about. And then slowly I would learn. But as, as I would figure out what they were saying, they’d moved on. So I couldn’t even ask questions. I couldn’t contribute. And that matters because I think we associate language ability with intelligence and competence and think about living in a country with immigrants who come here, do not speak English as a first language and the way that we diminish them in our society. And that was like that. I experienced that as a Harvard educated woman, the lack of language ability made me such a, made me feel so alienated. Even though I was part of a company that was very welcoming, but this is where I started to really develop this notion of importance of equity and inclusion in the work that we do.

Mia:

So, so 18 months later, I did feel like I could really. And that’s when I started to really contribute and lead. And I was there for three years and feel like we had, we had the opportunity one to expose our kids. I mean, my kids were fluent in Spanish and Portuguese. When we came back, they would play in Portuguese. And I, I was like, you know, I remember looking at them like three months in, like they were speaking the language because they don’t care about, you know, subject, verb, conjugation. They just speak. It was, I was so inspired by anyway, but I was committed. I had a Spanish tutor and a Portuguese tutor. And then of course I was traveling through the region. So from Mexico to Uruguay, we had business. The beauty of that role is also getting to understand like local market culture and context to this day.

Mia:

I can tell when I hear people speak Spanish, I can tell you if they’re Argentinian or Mexican. Like that for me was so cool, like fully immersing myself in that experience. But I learned, I just learned a ton. I mean, emotionally, I think I became more resilient cause I cried every day for the first year. I mean, I wanted to come home every day and I couldn’t, I said to my husband, what have we done? But I remember he’d say, oh my God, you’re, you’re stronger than this. Like, get, I remember literally on the floor, like curled up like a baby crying and saying, I want to go home. He’s like get up. He’s like fight. Like, like this is not who you are. So having a great partner on that journey was also wonderful. And having people that wanted to see me succeed. So I did it, we were there for three years there

Keith:

For three years. But what, what was the, I mean, that’s just incredible. I mean, I was going to ask you how you even learn Portuguese and Spanish, but I mean, yeah. We took some Spanish classes back in high school and yeah, I definitely don’t speak it, but you you got through that three years, did you, were you trying to get back to the U S or was that, was that just an opportunity that sort of came up kind of what, what was the next decision you had to make?

Mia:

So it was really about my husband being able to get back to work because we also thought, oh, he’ll figure it out. We’ll find something. But the visas are really complicated and we just, we just thought, you know what, it’s too long. And he started his own business while we were there, but we just, it was time for him to really also reignite his career. And we knew we couldn’t do that there. So yeah, but I, I wasn’t sure what was going to happen. And I was certainly sure that I probably wasn’t gonna be able to stay with Sedexo because there were no immediate opportunities. But then all of a sudden I get a call and they want me to lead one of our divisions in the U S and again, I’m like, but I have no experience and I don’t know the business.

Mia:

But and it was a business that have been failing for many years. So I was also afraid of what the risk of failure was really high. But ultimately it was the only way back to the U S so I said, yes. And I, you know, I, I really, you know, the industry was employee engagement and employee recognition. Sedexo has so many business divisions, but they’re all connected through this notion of quality of life. Like we just want to help people reach their highest potential. I love that mission, quality of life of those we serve. But I was a year into that job, Keith and I was like, you know what, there are no levers to pull. And I just really like dawned on me. They’d been trying for so many years and it dawned on me that they needed to shut it down.

Mia:

And I remember one of the hardest days of my career was making that trip to Paris meeting with my boss and our executives and saying, I think you need to wind it down and having to have that conversation in a way that did not reflect on my leadership, because I didn’t want it to be about me and that I failed. I wanted it to be about our, our assets or lack thereof. And so just painting the picture for them of what was possible, what was impossible and trying to explain, honestly, that, you know, we were going to make investments that would not bear fruit, but also giving alternatives. So in that conversation, I also proposed, we think about an acquisition and they put me on a very short lease, but they said, you know, let’s, we don’t know the space well in it, but let’s go see, I wish we had time for me to tell you the acquisition journey, cause that that could be a whole nother conversation.

Mia:

But I, I went to look for targets and I found one, I met the CEO and I remember in the first call, he said, my company is not for sale. And I said, okay, but can I come, can I come have dinner with you? So we met for dinner and we just connected because he had three girls and he just wanted to understand my life story, how my parents were, we just connected. And and he said after that dinner, well, what if my company’s for sale? And that started the journey, like doing an acquisition at a company like Sedexo really complex, also navigating, like when do I step in, when do I defer to our friends leaders? Like all of that was so took us a year to get that deal done. And then, and then at the end was, and am I going to get to run the company?

Mia:

But I remember when our CEO sat down and said, we want you to run the company because we were, we were buying a company that was bigger than ours, and there were already executives in place. And so I thought, certainly they’re going to promote somebody there. But I remember Denny sitting with me and having the Danny, our CEO sitting with me and having a conversation, we were sitting in a cafe and he said, no, this is, I’m so excited for you. This is the right job for you this moment. But let’s also talk about your gaps. You know, let’s talk about where we want you to really watch out. You know, this is a big role and we want you to like step into it with confidence. I remember him saying to me, sometimes you play too small. And I think that is I, yeah, in hindsight.

Mia:

Yeah, because, because I mean, I live in the imposter syndrome and he said, no, you need to lead with confidence. I still get that pep talk sometimes. But they took a chance on me. And so here I was now running a technology company. I knew nothing about software development. So I had to rely on the team and, and then I had to really dig in and learn. It took me a year to learn the business, to learn technology to get to know our clients. And I did that job for four years. It was also really hard.

Keith:

Let me, because you brought it up and I’ve heard you talk about it before. And I just think it’s amazing that you do imposter syndrome. And I don’t want to spend too much time on it because we have 15 minutes left, but I know you’re so transparent. And then that’s what people are saying in the chat, you know, there that, you know, how inspiring it is that you are be so transparent because I feel like a lot of people do deal with that. And I talked to a lot of really successful people, you know, all sorts of levels and all industries and a lot of people battle with that. And so you’re being open with that I think is inspiring. Because most people, you know, they’ll say it privately, but not publicly. And you know, how do you deal with that? You know, you have those feelings of when they come over you, if I might prepare for this, am I ready for this? Can I do this? And how do you deal with that?

Mia:

It’s just the noise, always in my, in my head. And it has lessened over time because I just feel like, okay, me at 20, 23 years into your career, like you didn’t just get here by chance. So have a little faith in yourself, for sure. So that, that helps, but I’m always sure I’m going to muck it up really. And I mean, even in business school, I called my parents, you know, two days in and I said, they made a mistake. Like I don’t belong here. I’m the dumbest one, but here’s, here’s what that has done. It’s always, it is compelled me, obliged me to always work harder than everybody else, because I’m so sure that I’m not good enough. And so I over-prepare, I’ve read everything. I study everything it’s been. So, so it’s always there, but what I’ve learned to do is, you know, you just walk through it, you walk through the fear, but you don’t take much for granted. Right. And that, I think that’s when one of the secrets, if you will, to my success is I always do the hard work.

Keith:

Yeah. Yeah. We’ve got some great questions before we get to some of those. And I have so many questions that I’m probably not gonna be able to get to, but I did tease early on in some emails about me meeting Oprah about what we do with magic Johnson. I at least want to touch on those before in case we don’t get to that, the answer about got those folks and what you’ve learned from them.

Mia:

So, so Oprah, I mean, that was just I mean, Keith, that was serendipity. I don’t know if you’re a member, but I was obsessed with it. Yes. It was going to be the next Oprah, because I love her so much. I wrote her a letter cause I was, I was class president and I asked her to speak at our graduation and I got this form letter back and I just thought, you know, okay, fine. But one day, so I go to Wellesley and and, and become really good friends with with a wonderful woman also from Texas whose dad happened to be Oprah’s partner Stedman. And and so the next summer I was, I was vacationing with, with Oprah. It was the craziest thing. And I remember Oprah saying to me, do you know, many people would love to be at my kitchen table as like probably a lot.

Mia:

She’s like, and you’re here. So you need to be, really think about why you aren’t sitting at my kitchen table and what you’re going to do with your life. Like you’re not going to squander anything. And Oprah and I have gone on to do some really cool things together. You know, we did a case for HBS. You know, when I was like, my first year, I was like, where all the women were, all the people of color in our cases. And so Oprah was like, I was like, oh, we just got a good story. She’s a black woman. So we did a case, which is not part of HBS curriculum. She’s an, I mean, I mean, what do you say about Oprah? I mean, I give her a lot of credit for the way that I think the way I approach my life, the ability to take risks.

Mia:

And then the business, one of the businesses that I manage today is our joint venture with magic Johnson enterprise. And I mean, magic owns, you know, he’s the majority owner in the business. And so my, and I kept that role, by the way, I told you I wanted to keep that it’s a minority certified business because it’s my majority owned by magic Johnson enterprise. So what a beautiful link between diversity, equity, inclusion, and business building. But in that role, you have like, you are steward of such an important brand, you know, which is about community. It’s about diversity, equity and inclusion. So what a gift to be able to help cultivate the magic brand in our space. But yeah, I mean, it is, you know, the brand is magic. So getting him and his voice out there and having him represent our company and, and trying to do that in a way that honors the mission and vision and purpose of the brand, it is so cool. I mean, I mean, and, and it’s matching who I call Mr. Day, by the way, his friends don’t call him magic. They call them no, no, yeah, you call it. It’s like, you don’t know him, but if you call him, so Mr. J is the more familiar. Got it, got it. Okay,

Keith:

Good. Good to know some info insight information. So, you know, whether it’s Oprah or Mr. J, I mean, you’ve just rubbed elbows with a lot of very impressive people, a lot of amazing leaders. Is there any sort of common thread that, you know, when you meet these people, I mean, that makes them who they are. I mean, their presence there. I mean, what is it about them?

Mia:

Easy authenticity, what you see is exactly what you get. I mean, in particular, when you think about both Oprah and magic have built their businesses on their brand, there has to be a certain level of alignment between who you are, what you believe and what you project and that consistency. I just think that is a formula for success. You can only give the world the gifts that come most naturally to you, I think. And so it’s just tapping into who you are. And I think that’s a lifelong journey that I learned from Oprah, right? Just invest in the self-discovery because you can not show yourself if you don’t know yourself. I love that. So, and I think for both of them, and this is also, this’ll be the last thing that I’ll say this notion of the why of your work, but they are very clear. And I have learned to be very clear about why am I doing this? Why am I investing my time? And does it align with my values, finding your why, knowing who you are and finding your why consistent.

Keith:

So before we get to a couple of questions, do you want the most popular, most most asked question was just around DEI. You know, when you ask people what they want to learn from, from you this webinar, and in addition to your life story and kind of how you got where you are. I think there’s varying levels of knowledge on this call for coaching. May not even know what that means. I’ve never heard the term to wanting to get involved. Yeah. Varsity equity and inclusion. So tell us a little bit about what it is, what you, and kind of what, what your role is.

Mia:

I’ll be really technical for a minute, because where does this work is really not about you know, technical expertise. I know that now, but but this work really is you know, diversity’s, who’s in the room. I mean, and we always say it’s that extra diversity is a fact because we, we operate in all these communities around the world. So we are operating in a diverse world. That’s a fact, it’s what you do with it that creates this notion of inclusion and equity inclusion is about, are we creating workspaces that are promote a sense of belonging? You know, do I feel good when I show up here is my world, my life being validated. When I show up here, equity for me is the why you do the work equity is about, are you ensuring that the right voices are at the table? And are you recognizing and rewarding those voices, equities, how you get to equality.

Mia:

Equity is about acknowledging that there are traditionally underserved underrepresented populations and to achieve equality, you have to overinvest in those groups, women, and people of color, people with disabilities, LGBTQ. I mean, that is how young people, right? I mean, those are all sort of underrepresented groups that we have to over invest in to achieve equality. So that’s a technical version, but I really think if you, if you break it down, this work is about human connection and empathy. It’s, you know, am I taking a moment to understand the lived experience of my colleague and the pain that they might have lived and that they bring to the workplace. I might honoring that and giving space for that. And then am I uplifting by being an ally? You know, when I see things that do not feel right, are in congruence with our values, am I using my voice and my platform, particularly if you’re a white man, because white men are in positions of power and privilege, are they using that to uplift others? I mean, this work is about humanity and it’s about empathy and compassion and care. That’s it.

Keith:

So, so if someone’s interested in learning more about going to that sort of work, I mean, I know at this point in your career, you were given this opportunity, w someone’s earlier in their career, where would they go? W what would they do to learn about it? He got a company who it’s part of their mission, or what, what advice would you give

Mia:

Pretty much in a lot of these D and D and I leaders also come from HR because it’s ultimately about people and D and I gets actualized and HR practices and HR process, you know, how are we hiring? How are we promoting? How are we rewarding? That’s all HR. So that’s a great way to start and to really get the, the technical grounding. But I think if you’re, if this work is really interesting to you, it’s about going to a company that makes it a business imperative as the XO has done.

Keith:

Let’s talk a little about w we’d be remiss if we didn’t talk about interviewing, hiring, being a recruiting firm, always interested to understand how people hire, what they look for. You’ve, you’ve hired a lot of people. You’ve interviewed a lot of people. What do you look for? What are some of the things you look for when you’re doing your hiring your different roles?

Mia:

I think, I think technical competence is sort of the bare minimum. It’s it’s table stakes. It’s ultimately about it. I look for humility. I look for vulnerability. I look for integrity, because I think the other stuff you can teach, and I want people in my workplace who are not afraid to ask for help and who are not afraid to fail and who are committed to bringing people with them. So if for me, it’s those leadership characteristics, I think, are so important. One of my best, my favorite questions to ask, because it reveals a lot about people is talk to me about your gaps. You know, what are you not good at? I think the way people answer that tells you a whole lot about who they are.

Keith:

Yeah. And whether they even have the self-awareness. Exactly. we did have a question. Do you have an executive coach, or did you have one at some point in your career?

Mia:

I had one when I was making the transition to inspire us, the company we acquired, I at, you know, cause my CEO sat down and said, you know, here’s some gaps. And so I asked, I did ask, you know, can I have a coach? It was a me for a year. It was super, super powerful. Yeah. Yeah.

Keith:

We had another question. About what advice do you have for women in the work in the workforce about asking for pay equity? They feel like they’re not being paid, what they should

Mia:

Be. Yeah. I mean, I think you’ve got to go with facts. I mean, that’s the most important thing and you know, if you’ve got good HR leaders, that they are proactively looking at that and ensuring that there is equity in pay. But but I, I do think women have to work a little harder to feel confident in who they are when they make the ask and to be willing also to walk away if you don’t get what you, what you want. But I think the hardest part for women is just, is asking and that’s really quickly, we had more time. That’s what I learned in this last job, because I PR I wasn’t particularly invested in, in this last role, the role that I’m in now, meaning that I just thought, you know, what if I get it great. But if I don’t that’s okay. Because I love what I’m doing. I was, I became in that moment, the shrewdest negotiator, because like my BATNA was, if I don’t get this job that’s okay. And, and, and lo and behold, I got everything I asked for, but I, but it just, it happened at a time when I was like, you know, but it was because I didn’t, it was okay if I didn’t. So, so I learned a lot about just the power of just asking, asking on your behalf, being your own advocate.

Keith:

That is not a term everybody uses. So, so tell us

Mia:

Best alternative to something, something, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s basically

Keith:

Stated agreement cutting. Alternative the moral. Yeah.

Mia:

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it’s having a good alternative.

Keith:

What kind of behaviors show confidence. You have that question?

Mia:

Transparency, you know, when people are willing to tell the truth, I mean, it w I don’t know if it shows confidence or at least a comfort level with who you are. And I think that I do think that’s that’s, that’s really important. And then the willingness to admit you’re wrong and the willingness to say, you don’t know. I think, I think vulnerability actually, just so comfort with who you are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you admit,

Keith:

When you don’t know something, then when you do know something, people take it more seriously. They know you’re not making it. Right. what are your favorite business leadership books, favorite podcasts? Are you a big reader? Do you listen to a lot of podcasts?

Mia:

Okay. So in my spare time, I do romance novels. My sister’s a romance writers, so this is how I go to sleep. It just disconnects me from the stress of the day and just, just puts me in a different place. So I’d read a lot of romance novels, but, but I love anything. Bernie brown. I love her. I mean, I love anything because she also talks about humanity leadership. And then right now I’m reading a book called cast, which is really about it’s about the construct of, of, of race and hierarchy. I’m learning a lot about, it’s tied to this work.

Keith:

I was going to ask you about some of the best advice you’ve been given, but you’ve, you’ve shared so much of that. I mean, there’s just amazing advice. If you could go back, I’m assuming the answer is no, but any changes you would make back in your career, anything you would do differently or tell yourself?

Mia:

Yeah. I mean, in hindsight, no, but in the moment, yes. Like, I’m always like, oh, I made a mistake. I shouldn’t have done this, but, but it’s only in hindsight that you say you recognize it was all of those, it’s the accumulation of all those events and experiences that make you who you are today. So, no, although I would say I’ve spent a lot of time with imposter syndrome and it’s just, it’s wasted energy. And if I could go back and just say, yes, you can, Mia. Yeah. You can. I feel that now, but I wish I knew that 20 years ago.

Keith:

Yeah. It’s a fun question. You’ve been a lot of places. What’s your favorite place outside of the U S

Mia:

Oh, Thailand. Yeah. I mean, just a, such a rich country. You’ve got the city, you’ve got the beaches. The people are amazing. Yeah.

Keith:

Very good. A lot of folks are asking if they can get in touch with you over LinkedIn. Would that be okay? 100.

Mia:

I mean, I am a super eight LinkedIn user and it may take me time, but I really do try to react to everybody that reaches out on LinkedIn. So happy to do that. Very

Keith:

Good. And we’ll send out, people always ask, we’ll send out a recording to everybody who registered. So if you did, you will get that recording also send out me as LinkedIn address so you can access it that way as well. And Mia, just also just want to say Lucy still has my vanilla ICD your sister, so yeah. You could ask her to return it. That would be great. Yeah, just let her know. So, so many, so many folks are just thankful for your transparency, just sharing all information. You did an awesome, I mean, what a treat. So thank you so much. Thank you. And I will talk to him, but thank you everybody. Thanks

Mia:

So much. That was awesome. So much fun.

Keith:

Awesome. All right. Thanks everybody. We’ll see you soon.